Our family made a trip to NYC in May so we could see our good friends Scott Ramsey, Laura Cunningham, and their two kids, Will and Ginny. The NYC trip was also planned so I could interview Mary Foulke at her parish, St. Luke in the Fields in Greenwich Village.

Picture: Mattie Foulke-Hill, Mary, Renee Hill, Helena Foulke-Hill

I first met Mary during my first year at Union. Mary was in her final years of the dissertation process, getting her Ed.D from Columbia University, Teacher's College. I don't remember what circumstances led to my meeting of Mary but I was drawn to her liturgical creativity, institutional knowledge of Union, and the power she revealed when resisting social and ecclesiastical privilege.

Mary has this incredible gift of analyzing the social construction of power (race, gender, orientation, class.....) plus has the right-brain ability to create liturgical wonder and have an incredible pastoral presence. She's a triple threat.

My favorite worship service at Union was during the week of Halloween in my first year. Queer Caucus + All Saint's Day + Halloween Week in NYC = boundary-breaking imaginative worship. The Queer Caucus at Union was leading worship and I remember coming in during the first hymn, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." Coming down the middle of James Chapel was nothing other then a catwalk.

Worship continued with a sermon by Andy Corbin, a Union student, wearing a t-shirt with Jesus in a robe and the words, "Jesus Loves Drag." (I've been looking for that t-shirt ever since). Andy focused on Jesus' use of the word "pervert" and Jesus' ability to subvert language and culture.

Next up: Gay Saints. The catwalk came alive when queer Union folk took turns reading words from Gay Saints. After each reading, the reader(s) would strut down the catwalk while Paul Rauschenbush, great-grandson of Walter Rauschenbush, wearing black leather pants and jacket chanted, "This is the House of Liberation." These words were said over and over while house music pumped through James Chapel.

Janet Walton, professor of worship at Union, uses the video of this worship service as a model for how to create and lead worship.

This service has set the standard for me in how to look at worship and what to expect from a liturgical experience. Worship is a laboratory, an experiment with the truth, a womb where we practice how we want to live and be together, a sacred endeavor to create a House of Liberation. In our everyday lives, we are a symbolic action of the Holy; indeed, revealing the energy and power in how we live, move, and have our being. This service took risk after risk. It could have been a complete bomb. Instead, it was an incredible experience of community, queer culture, risk-taking, prophetic voices and.....a catwalk.

Who was behind this liturgical masterpiece? Mary Foulke.

I interviewed Ruth two weeks ago while she was in town for the Human Rights Campaign Clergy Call for Justice and Equality conference. Ruth lives in Cleveland, Ohio with her partner, Adrienne Brockway, and is the Executive Director of the United Church of Christ's Coalition for LBGT Concerns.

I met Ruth my first year at Union when she was in her third and final year of the M.Div program. At some point after our initial meeting, we realized we graduated from the same high school, Upper Arlington High School in Upper Arlington, Ohio. Ruth's parents still live in Upper Arlington as do my parents. One of my connecting points with Ruth is our critique of Upper Arlington: a place that was once home and a suburban community with strong boundaries of racial and class privilege.

My second year at Union I started my two-year field education placement at Broadway UCC and Ruth was on staff as a parish associate. It was in my two years at Broadway that initially exposed me to Ruth's commitment to a welcoming Church, especially in the ways a church can deconstruct its positions of power around race, gender, orientation, and class.

When Bob and I were planning our wedding, we had the gift of being able to pick our friends as officiants. Bob was very clear that he wanted to have Ruth as one of the officiants because of her welcoming presence in worship. This was a key element of the service for us; we wanted our friends, especially our friends who live without marriage equality, to feel welcome at our service. So Ruth and Anna Olson (soon to be interviewed!) were our two amazing officiants for our wedding at First Congregational Church in Washington, D.C. in 1999. Barbara Gerlach, interview #1, was on staff at First Congregational when we were married and graciously opened the doors of First Congregational for our two friends to officiate.

In the past several years, we've been honored to shelter Ruth when she makes trips to D.C. for lgbt conferences. When she asks to stay with us, I usually have this internal monologue going on, "Ruth remembers we have three kids, right?" But I admire Ruth's appreciation for being in our home where she can be around our kids, see their coming and goings, drop them off at school with us, and observe our family in action.

This past visit, Ruth was our pastor-in-residence when we had to put our dog, Murphy, to sleep. We realized within a period of 24 hours that we had to do the kind thing for Murphy as the tumor on her spleen was creating an internal nightmare. The picture to the right is of Sam and Maddie anointing Murphy the day before we had to put her to sleep. Ruth is on the other side of the room.

Also during this last visit, Ruth was inundated with questions from Ryan. "Why are you here?" "Why are you sleeping in the basement?" "Why is that your suitcase?" Ruth's favorite was, "Why is that your computer?" As I dropped Ruth off at the airport, she said to me, "don't get homicidal." I think she was referring to parenting three kids.

I'm thankful for Ruth for her intensity, her sarcasm, her critical analysis of the Church, and her ever evolving vision of who she is in the midst of many.

I met with Margee Iddings on March 31st at her house in Alexandria, Virginia. I met Margee a couple of years ago as I was preparing for Jeff's three month sabbatical period. As Jeff was taking on global adventures, Pilgrims wanted to have a sabbatical period that involved growth and exploration. I directed myself to Margee who is known throughout the world for creative and imaginative liturigcal ideas. Margee walked with me through the three month sabbatical, helping me expand Pilgrim's experience with ritual, liturgy, and living into our thematic structure of "Connections and Clarity." Since the sabbatical time, Margee has become a Parish Associate at Pilgrims plus remains my spiritual director.

This is how I would sum up my relationship with Margee: Margee + Ashley=energy+creativity+support+encouragement+trust=depth. Depth is defined as, " a part that is far from the outside or surface; profound or intense state; the quality of being deep; the degree of intensity; the quality of being profound (as in insight) or full (as of knowledge); the quality or state of being complete or thorough." My relationship with Margee is one that takes me to my depths--another characteristic of the other women I will eventually interview. As Margee has challenged and pushed me to explore the boundaries of worship and liturgical ritual, I am taken to a part of me that is far from the outside or surface of myself. As I drove away from my interview with Barbara Gerlach, I had this intense awareness of my surroundings. As I drove away from Margee's house, my face literally was tingly hot; to me, signifying the flood of memories coming back to me from other experiences of being taken to my own depth while offered love and support.

Like Barbara Gerlach, Margee graduated from Union Theological Seminary in NYC. As Margee described her experience at Union, I heard my own story. Margee went to Union not really having a clear sense of why or how she would use her Masters of Religious Education and Sacred Music degree. While Margee was at Union, she was challenged by the liberation theology presented to her yet soaking it all up like a sponge. I, too, went to Union without a clear vision or call but I knew I had to go. I, too, was challenged by the liberating theology oozing out of Union but embraced it as normative and vital.

Like Barbara Gerlach, Margee has been part of a women's consciousness raising group (nicknamed the Burp Group) that has been a place of support, advocacy and polticizing choices and decisions made within the church. So with Margee I have this powerful force for creative, liturgical expression in my life along with a fierce advocate for a Church that embraces and lives by a radical nature. By radical nature, I mean those who identify as followers of the Way need to get up, move along, and take political risks for the sake of Jesus.

Near the end of our interview, I asked Margee about a symbol that would represent her life right now. She said, "a crone's crown." Margee has a croning ceremony when she was 50 and sees her call right now as a wise woman sprinkling encouragement to those along the way. A crone's crown usually has a potpourri of herbs on top so I'd like to picture Margee sprinkling lavendar on me--that's my favorite herb like flower. It's so smelly good. While we were talking, we both used some Model Magic to make images, kind of like doddling with clay. Margee made an image of her crown. I made a bowl with a music note to represent Margee's love of music, a circle for her crown and a "u" for Union.

I have about 40 minutes of my interview with Margee below. The interview goes something like this:

Margee shares her first steppingstone--experience of playing the organ in churches, starting in the fourth grade. (the clanking in the beginning of the recording is me putting butter on my muffin. That goes away. I'm also working on sound quality).

7:00--Margee shares about going to Wilson College
9:45--Union Theological Seminary and experiences in NYC
18:00--Margee's steppingstone on getting a D.Min at San Francisco Theological Seminary
23:00--Margee fires her D.Min advisor! Gets connected to Elisabeth Fiorenza.
25:00--Margee's relationship with Nelle Morton
26:00--Margee's' relationship with Beverly Harrison
28:00--cost of Margee's radical nature in her life
30:00--the joy of Margee's radical nature
32:00--radical nature of the church & the image of God
35:00--Christian community, sacraments, and being named

Listen here:

I met with Barbara on March 19th at her house in NW DC. I originally met Barbara at the doors of First Congregational Church at 10th and G. Bob and I had just moved down from New York City after I graduated from Union Theological Seminary and Bob from Columbia School of Social Work. First Church was (and, unfortunately, continues to be) the only Open and Affirming church in Washington, D.C. I started with First Church in my quest to find a new church home because of its theological and political stand on inclusiveness.

At First Church, I found Barbara and John, both graduates of Union Seminary, who welcomed us and began guiding me in the in-care process for ordination. I clung to Barbara 1998 because of her pastoral skills. The transition out of Union was nothing other than shitty for me. I was now without a community, void of friendships that were full of depth and intensity, and I felt invisible in D.C. Since Bob grew up in the D.C. area, I felt like my only identity at that point was "This is Ashley, Bob's girlfriend." Lovely but not enough. I was in D.C. feeling totally invisible; not seen in the present.

Barbara helped me navigate the murky and rocky waters of life after Union.

So it should not have surprised me that it took me a whole five minutes to get weepy with Barbara on March 19th. I was instantly transported back to 1998 and that fragile emotional state. But my emotions helped to set the stage for me to listen to Barbara share her full emotions in her "steppingstones" of life.

I've given each of my interviewees a reflection exercise called "Steppingstones." It was created by Ira Progroff as a means to getting to the major experiences in life. For our interview, I asked Barbara to reflect on her significant life relationships and experiences.

You can hear excerpts from our interview, with Barbara starting off with the "personal is political" as key steppingstones that took her to seminary and beyond. These excerpts include: Barbara talk about being a 60's child, a feminist, being in a women's consciousness raising group at Union, doing clergy consultation around choice in Scranton, PA, the demoralizing sexism she experienced at her first call, her bi-vocation as pastor and artist. We end the interview with Barbara reflecting on theological concepts that mean the most to her right now. It's about 20 minutes long in this order: Barbara's political steppingstones plus her consciousness raising group at Union. My voice sounds muffled and I'll fix that for the next interview. The interview also abruptly due to editing issues (my issues, not software issues. If you ask me about these issues, be sure to have a drink in hand....for me ).

Barbara's emotions were right there on top as she described the fierce sexism she faced in Scranton, the grief from feeling invisible in the Church.

The emotions that came from Barbara's story and my own emotions were palpable. Throughout our conversation, Barbara kept coming back to words that touch on my own story: transitions, being seen in the present, community, friendships based on shared humanity, and the personal is political. As we were talking, surrounded by this sturdy, wooden coffee table (pictured to the right) it became evident to why I picked these specific ten women to interview: they are all intense, political, authentic, and share their deepest selves with me, calling me forth to explore my own interior.


As I drove away from Barbara's house, down 16th street, I found myself right in front of the White House, a significant reminder of my hometown and where I live. In 1998, D.C. felt like less than home; it felt like a bottomless, empty pit. I certainly had my own grief work to do. This is when I met Barbara and now I come to her, in the midst of her own Great Labor called grief work. But now, with Barack Obama, I call this place home. Even though I'm not living in the muckity-muck of transition anymore, I'll still take any invitation to cling to Barbara Gerlach.

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In the interview, Barbara mentioned a NYTimes article done on her co-pastoring with John in Scranton, PA. I did an advanced search on NYTimes and found the article. I also found the article announcing Barbara's marriage to John, with the caption underneath her picture claiming she is the "former Barbara Gerlach." Barbara had changed her named when they were married but after many "trigger moments" of feeling invisible due to the name change, she changed her name back to Barbara Gerlach. When Barbara changed her name back to Gerlach, her mom asked her sister, "what will the mailman think?" The articles are below.

Barbara's Wedding Picture
Article of Barbara and John